Fuel octane

[lunchboxsxv]

Just got an sxv 450, the last owner used 98 ron and the bike has also been remaped on what i can guess as being done on 98 ron also but im told for some unkown reason this is bad and normal unleaded should be used or dramas can arise the bike seams to run fine maybe a little rich but only when its cold. it has a slight problem wanting to stay running at idol while cold aswell.
any thoughts from those in the know out there????

[SMC690]

If I had an SXV it would only feed her 98 RON or equivalent octane rating petrol. It's a very high performance bike and it needs to be fed the best 'food' to keep it healthy and to get the best out of it.

A few grades of octane rating between 95 and 98 should not make a difference to your mapping to the point that you should even have to worry about it.

In the 16,000 km's I did on my 625 I only ever put one tank of sub 98 RON fuel in it and that was only because I didn't want to push the bitch home and I had no other choice.

Fuel delivery via FI system does not change when you put different octane rating fuel in it as FI systems on bikes do not have anti knock sensors in them to adjust for poor fuel accordingly AFAIK.

My new 690 has a switch to change the mapping for poor fuel and it's not to be used for more than one tank full at a time and it's only when the RON rating is around or below 90 RON.

I'm sure a few of our Ape owners will chime in here and tell you what they run their babies on....

Who told you to run the lower octane fuel in it?

Cheers,
Juz.

[Wobbly]

Bikes are generally made to run on a given octane level. Lower than that is bad. Higher than that is inefficient (due to slower burning fuel due to higher density). Some bikes do have knock sensors, but not many.

[SMC690]

Are there any factory Motards out there with knock sensors yet?

I should probably have done a bit more research into the walbro system on the Ape's before I commented, lol.

I can find out reasonably quickly with an email if you need to know the answer...

[SMC690]

It appears to me the Walbro has no knock sensor according to this PDF:

http://www.athena-spa.com/ecu/ecu.pdf
(Then click English on the first page)

There are different maps over the years for SXV's which makes me think they may have changed ECU's over time.

Sending a PM to Dave Ward (STANLEY) on the forum here should give you a definitive answer.

[Wobbly]

I think some bmw's have a knock sensor

[Joe]

Run it on the good stuff. Whoever said it is bad to run it on 98 is ridiculous.
Most bikes these days are have a high comp ratio so would not risk running normal unleaded anyway. Plus just about all regular has 10% ethanol now (around here anyway) and that would cause the bike to run crap probably because it would not be mapped richer for ethanol and also might get 'pinging' because of the lower 91 rating.

SXV ecus have not changed, just the maps. As far as I know they just have a cold start map and when the coolant temp gets hot enough it changes to a normal running map. The sxv don't have o2 sensor so cannot make adjustments automatically. (They might have an o2 sensor in California ??)

Take it to Dave if you need work done on it.

[MarkeeMark]

As Joe has said, who ever told you 98 is bad needs to taker a deeper look into their thinking.
I've been running mine on 98 since the 1st tank without any problems.
The manual states use petrol of a premium grade unleaded with a minimum octane rating of 95RON. Manual available from HERE (http://xvasylum.wikidot.com/)
They don't run a knock sensor or an O2 sensor so what map is in there is the one it uses unmodified.
The different maps available were for different mods, updates for different climates and advances in development.
Your cold idle just needs to be adjusted manually then have the TPS reset to suit. They should idle when warm at or above 2000rpm to stop the auto decompressers from 'clanking'. So when cold, the idle map runs them at about 2500rpms until it senses, like Joe mentioned, the water temp is up, then it switches to a normal operating temp map.
See Dave Ward at Moto Italia if you can't get it sorted, if he can't fix it no one can.

[MrSXV]

+2 on the above, Also mines doesn't run on idle when cold unless i hold some throttle open till it warms up even with the yellow switch on, but mines a '07 with out the dual maps.

[re-entity]

On a related note, don't a lot of the premium fuels contain additives meant for cars that could damage a bike over time?

[SMC690]

When Shell Optimax first came out it stopped just about every Ducati with FI that we were servicing.

They kept arriving on tow trucks, lol. It kept fouling plugs.

What are the additives you have heard of Stuart?

[devo]

What's this "over time" thing? OP was in regards to an SXV, if he puts enough fuel through it to worry about that he has had a win. :lol2:

[re-entity]

I haven't heard of any specific additives, just warned in general that it was a problem from a mechanic who also experienced lots of fowled bikes coming in. I changed back to regular some time ago and the bike runs well, but I wouldn't mind using premium if I knew additives aren't going to fowl it.

[Wobbly]

Was just optimax from what I heard. Mobil 8000 seems to be the best regarded.

[SMC690]

I use BP 98 and Mobil.

I try not to use Vpower (unless it's an emergency), I prefer not to use petrol from companies that send mercenaries in to murder villages full of people just so they can put an oil pipeline through. Saw an interesting doco once. Our boss at Peter Steven's made us watch it in the early 90's to explain why he didn't stock Shell oils...

[Joe]

All engines are pretty much the same so if the additives don't destroy cars that go for 200000km + I don't think it will hurt the bike even if they do rev 3 times as much. Oils also have detergents/additives and they work OK to protect your engine :D

I think it was that optimax was more dense and caused bikes to run poorly, maybe that is what your mech was talking about.
Every bike I know of uses premium, BP and Caltex up here. Steer clear of Optimax is the word on the street.

[nick76]

If we ever went out trail riding,and someone fouled a plug,it was coz they filled their bike/jerry can with Optimax!!
I never use the stuff,but hasn't Optimax been given the arse,and Shell now have V Power instead??
Is it the same shit,with a different name?
I have had people say that its a new blend,so it might not be as bad on bikes,as it used to be?
I always try and run BP or Mobil,in my bikes,afew top notch mechanics have told me over the years,they are the two to go for if you can!!

[SMC690]

I forgot to mention Caltex, I use that when I can't find BP or Mobil...

Apparently V-Power is different to Optimax. I'm still not game, nor willing to use it though.

[WOOLO]

I use premium in everything from the whipper snipper to our cars and have never had a problem with it and have noticed better fuel economy on trips and travelling to work,except in my ute which is a petrolaholic. My understanding is that premium fuel is denser which causes a higher burn temp which makes a bigger bang. I run Penrite oil in everything and they all run well and are reliable,but I always use synthetic 2 stroke in all of our 2 strokes and have no dramas.
Preventive maintenance is important and mixing 2 stroke fuel to suit the days riding helps out I have found.
What was the big drama with Shell oils SMC 690,I used it in all sorts of engines and never had any failures but I'm keen to know more.

[SMC690]

What was the big drama with Shell oils SMC 690,I used it in all sorts of engines and never had any failures but I'm keen to know more.

I prefer not to use petrol from companies that send mercenaries in to murder villages full of people just so they can put an oil pipeline through. Saw an interesting doco once. Our boss at Peter Steven's made us watch it in the early 90's to explain why he didn't stock Shell oils...

Only a perceived moral drama. Who know's the truth in it though? The documentary could have purely been propaganda made & released by a competing oil company to increase their market share.
It worked for me though, I've never used shell oil & never will.

[Martin]

What was the big drama with Shell oils SMC 690,I used it in all sorts of engines and never had any failures but I'm keen to know more.

I prefer not to use petrol from companies that send mercenaries in to murder villages full of people just so they can put an oil pipeline through. Saw an interesting doco once. Our boss at Peter Steven's made us watch it in the early 90's to explain why he didn't stock Shell oils...

Only a perceived moral drama. Who know's the truth in it though? The documentary could have purely been propaganda made & released by a competing oil company to increase their market share.
It worked for me though, I've never used shell oil & never will.

Just begs the question
Who are the ethical oil companies ?
We're still invading countries & securing oil, don't think it's long till the "new" rulers of Palestine take on Iran (the only independent oil producing country left )
I like your stance but to be true to it we couldn't use oil at all
To answer orig question, in limited places you can buy V-Power 100, a bit exy but dyno tested on RMZ, with a couple of degrees of spark, gives me horsepower. For racing, no question.
For road bikes all premium 95 is good, some engines will gain from (or be tuned to) 98.
Run std unleaded in your lawnmower only.

[Ash007]

Back when petrol was $1.70/L my old man used my whole 20l jerry can full of BP 98 to fill his rideon, I was not to happy with him that day.

Back to the topic.......I only use BP 98 and will drive 10 min extra to get it over shell/caltex/711. The way I see it with the jap bikes is that they are tested/developed in Japan who have a much higher fuel octane rating than here in OZ, so the more octane the better. I think my YZ's manual also states no less than 98 octane.

[SMC690]

Back when petrol was $1.70/L my old man used my whole 20l jerry can full of BP 98 to fill his rideon, I was not to happy with him that day.

Yeah, but I bet he set a personal best at mowing the lawn that day!

[Ash007]

No i think that was the day he rolled it hown the hill. :)

[lunchboxsxv]

Does any one have a number for dave at moto italia?

[Ash007]

Yellow pages is your friend for that one mate http://www.yellowpages.com.au/bi/moto-italia-penrith-nsw-5676726.html

[Wobbly]

Dave Ward
Moto Italia
Aprilia-Ducati-Moto Guzzi
0432 441 985

[WOOLO]

Yeh, just re-read it properly SMC 690.Probably best I don't start typing after a big arvo of taste testing home made goodness I think.

[SMC690]

I like your stance but to be true to it we couldn't use oil at all.

I agree. Apparently George Bush thought oil was a weapon of mass destruction. ;)

[pilbaradrz]

What was the big drama with Shell oils SMC 690,I used it in all sorts of engines and never had any failures but I'm keen to know more.

I prefer not to use petrol from companies that send mercenaries in to murder villages full of people just so they can put an oil pipeline through. Saw an interesting doco once. Our boss at Peter Steven's made us watch it in the early 90's to explain why he didn't stock Shell oils...

Only a perceived moral drama. Who know's the truth in it though? The documentary could have purely been propaganda made & released by a competing oil company to increase their market share.
It worked for me though, I've never used shell oil & never will.

I stopped using Shell when Coles Express took over and closed the Take away food section. They used to make great Hamburgers and salad rolls. Now I go the BP which have good food now. I live 200m from the Shell here in Karratha but now travel 1km to the BP. I just buy BP 95 in a jerry can and use it for the bike and Honda lawn mower. No 98 here in town.

Glen.

[random101]

I would say the oil plays a much bigger role in the SXV (it will be happy running on pretty much all 98octane fuels)

make sure you keep up using motul 5100 and pref V300

[MarkeeMark]

I've also used all of the major premium fuel brands (BP, Mobil, Shell and Caltex) in my SXV and had no ill effects at all.
I do try to buy Mobil and BP but always make sure I'm buying from a high volume servo. Petrol goes off and if you've ever looked inside a fuel tank of a 10 yr old car you'll understand, so much crap in there!
Also don't buy from a servo when they are getting their tanks filled cos the new fuel being pumped in will stir the sediment in the bottom and that then ends up in our bikes and cars, ruining pumps and filling fuel filters full of crap.