upgrading the brakes [Archive]

albonator316

07-01-2008, 10:49 AM

Well since the front brake on the CR went all tibetan on me and wanted to brake free from the bike, which it successfully did :evil:
I was going to up grade the brakes anyway, the OEM caliper just didn't have the initial bite that say a 4 pot brake would have.
so once the front fork is better, i wanna get a better caliper on there.
Here is the problem. I've been looking for brake kits for the CR 92-94 model and can only find one from the UK, which is for a 300mm disc not 320mm and it will cost 589 english pounds
http://www.iane.co.uk/brembo_moto.html
i'm not spending that much! that AU$1500 probably an extra 100 delivered ouch.
There just doesn't seem to be anyother brake packages out the with a extension braket for a 320mm disc cr500 94 mod.
There have been a few brave CR500 motards out there who have made their own braket (i suspect thats what the previous owner of my bike did), is this a too larger task, i would make the braket myself but woud obviously design it then have it made. Obviously i have to find a brake first.
Does this sound like a fair task?

The other alternative would be new/used forks from another brand bike that will definietly have a brake package for bigger discs.
Problems with this i'll have to get a new hub and hope it lasses to the exsisting rim, and hope the ne forks fit in triple clamps. This also means not just new brakes but new disc aswell as old disc won't fit on new hub.
Much money in this solution too ;)

any input here would be great, whether it be a new idea or improving on previous ideas. either way i got some homework to do ;)

SMC690

07-01-2008, 11:00 AM

I've been thinking on all of this, still thinking, will think some more and let you know. :)

I'll get you a price on the Brembo stuff locally as the page you listed above has part number which is handy.

Greeny

07-01-2008, 11:07 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/motomaster-supermoto-caliper-and-disc-crf-kxf-yzf-rmz_W0QQitemZ320204254148QQihZ011QQcategoryZ35230Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This might help you out.

ZuluFoot

07-01-2008, 11:43 AM

Post a query on Visordown Nick, there were a few guys there that converted CR5's, you may even find someone with spares lying around.

http://www.visordown.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Sibbo

07-01-2008, 12:21 PM

Should of bought a berg with radially mounted 4 potter from the factory.

Get a different end part of the fork and update to radial and then get a groovy radial mount caliper. You are made of money right?

albonator316

07-01-2008, 12:23 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/motomaste[...]1QQcmdZViewItem

This might help you out.

Unfortunately that one is incompatible with my bike, wish it was though!! Thats a nice setup.

Daws

07-01-2008, 12:33 PM

Nick, getting a bracket made is no problem - Speak to Rex Wolfenden as he knows a bit about fitting modern brakes to older bikes.

Any competent Machine shop will also be able to fabricate a bracket for you - I know of a few in Melbourne that I would recommend, perhaps KTM450 on here who does the road wheels conversions would be interested assuming he has a milling machine.

I wonder if the MIB caliper that Neil bought for his KDX would work?

Wobbly

07-01-2008, 12:42 PM

Are you sure that motomaster won't fit?

Most of the japanese dirt bikes used a standard fitment nissin 2 piston sliding pin caliper. So if the CR used this, and it also used a standard 260mm front disc size, then any brake that fits that configuration should fit fine, then you just need to locate a disc. And again, if its a standardised hub (early CR honda) then you should be able to find many generics that fit.

I have 2 4-piston calipers designed for nissing 2 pot replacement that can be used just to see whether they are compatible or not, though one is for me and the other already has dibs down on it. But at least that would tell you for sure as to whether it would fit or not.

Wobbly

07-01-2008, 12:44 PM

Note that the ebay listing states it won't fit pre-04, but doesn't say because of caliper spacing or because of the stud pattern on the disc.

Post some pics of your standard front brake setup (caliper, mount, disc) and measure the diameter of the standard disc if you have it...

SM93

07-01-2008, 01:08 PM

thats weird thats the brakes i brought off ebay????????????

albonator316

07-01-2008, 01:36 PM

thanks neil, might take you up on that offer.

albonator316

07-01-2008, 01:43 PM

Are you sure that motomaster won't fit?

Most of the japanese dirt bikes used a standard fitment nissin 2 piston sliding pin caliper. So if the CR used this, and it also used a standard 260mm front disc size, then any brake that fits that configuration should fit fine, then you just need to locate a disc. And again, if its a standardised hub (early CR honda) then you should be able to find many generics that fit.

I take it i can't use the disc already on the bike with the motomaster setup?

albonator316

07-01-2008, 01:55 PM

I looked up the part number you can read on the extension bracket on that ebay item, went to the motomaster website. that braket suits the 95 model but not 94, there were some big changes between 94 and 95 on the cr front end.
Also in their section on 94 cr500 the discs have 4 holes but all 95 disc have 6 holes, like the one on ebay. Gee wish my bike was a 95 and not a 94, would make things easier!

Also the stand disc was 240mm and went up to 260mm in 95. again bugger

Flash

07-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Huskys run a 4 bolt disk! I don't know the chances of it being the same PCD but stranger things have happened!

albonator316

07-01-2008, 02:38 PM

Huskys run a 4 bolt disk! I don't know the chances of it being the same PCD but stranger things have happened!

they seems to be a 2mm difference in inside diameter for there discs. close

MarkeeMark

07-01-2008, 04:14 PM

Huskys run a 4 bolt disk! I don't know the chances of it being the same PCD but stranger things have happened!

they seems to be a 2mm difference in inside diameter for there discs. close

Nick try aussiediscs they should be able to make one for you in the size you want at a fair price too.

megahead

07-01-2008, 04:28 PM

I have a wp front end with triples new seals and a choice of spring rates
and valved sittin around , plenty of brakes and hubs fit this
came off a o4 berg i think.

:D

Sibbo

07-01-2008, 04:55 PM

There you go!!!

Now you just near a good swing arm as well.

Woolf555

07-01-2008, 05:04 PM

albonator316

07-01-2008, 05:06 PM

Yes i could, then i'd have to get a new axel 20mm (no prob) But then would that require new forks? 94 axel 17mm dia.

Woolf555

07-01-2008, 05:47 PM

Not sure, but I find this web site really helpful in these situations -

http://www.mrcycles.com/default.asp

Gives online microfiche of all years and models of Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki. You can check the '94 and take note of the part numbers and then compare them to a '95 and see whats the same and what's different.
Add this one to your favourites :)

Maybe you could get the '94 forks drilled 3mm wider to accommodate the bigger axle?

albonator316

07-01-2008, 05:58 PM

okay here are the pics of some of the damage:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/front%20brake%20failure/DSC00243.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/front%20brake%20failure/DSC00242.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/front%20brake%20failure/DSC00241.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/front%20brake%20failure/DSC00239.jpg
bit blurry but i don't have a camera, only a 2mp mobile phone camera

tambi

07-01-2008, 06:40 PM

I had my disc made by aussiediscs, good stuff at a good price

Wobbly

07-01-2008, 10:36 PM

Ok, the reason that the caliper isn't applicable then is because of the 240mm disc on your model. This means that the casting of the lower fork leg is diff (using the same nissin 2 piston caliper) to keep the caliper 10mm inward to make allowance for the 20mm difference in diameter.

SO, if you get one of those "generic" fit calipers it won't fit a 320mm disc. HOWEVER, it should fit a 300mm disc. Again, a trial fitment of a 4 piston nissin replacement would tell if this were true, but I can't see it not being, all things being equal.

So then its a matter of getting a disc made up and dealing with a little less stopping power (but only fractionally really, and nothing compared to the diff that a new caliper will bring).

The other alternative is to buy something like that motomaster and then get your own custom locating bracket made up by someone who is decent behind a mill, and made out of decent grade of heat treated alloy (7075 or maybe 6061 T6) and mating up to your 320mm disc. Bit of stuffing around required to do so of course.

The OTHER alternative would be to buy a pukka radial caliper and fork lowers to suit, press off the old ones off your forks, press on the new ones, work up a new hub to match the necessary axle size and then re-lace your existing rim to this new hub. If you've got a few spare grand laying around anyway.

So thems seems to be your options as far as I can tell...

Wobbly

07-01-2008, 10:54 PM

Btw if you're looking to get something made, here's a good site with various grades of alloy and technical data on them, including shear strength in unannealed and heat treated states...

http://principalmetals.com/properties/step2.asp?Family=Aluminum

Daws

08-01-2008, 12:52 AM

7075 is the go for caliper brackets - Sometimes called Ergal.

albonator316

08-01-2008, 09:24 AM

a mate of mine suggested welding and filling the broken caliper bolt hole and then re drilling the hole. Is this gonna have the strength providing its a good weld?
Thanks for the help neil, making up a bracket is gonna be the way to go i reckon. i'd be able to use my CAD skills i learnt at uni, infact the only hing i learnt at uni :roll: ;)

Flash

08-01-2008, 01:27 PM

If you weld it, it will have stress points unless you heat treat it! It still won't be as strong either. Personally I would weld it I'd rather pay the extra and be safe!

albonator316

08-01-2008, 01:48 PM

If you weld it, it will have stress points unless you heat treat it! It still won't be as strong either. Personally I would weld it I'd rather pay the extra and be safe!

thats how i felt to he is from an MX back ground so his braking forces are nothing compaired to motard.
i was quoted $370 for new fork tube from peter stevens.

Doogs

08-01-2008, 02:35 PM

I think I would get a pro to look at that one if thinking of welding,
I don't think it would hold up, To much of a risk to health

Alot of guys probably won't touch it though.

albonator316

08-01-2008, 02:47 PM

I think I would get a pro to look at that one if thinking of welding,
I don't think it would hold up, To much of a risk to health

Alot of guys probably won't touch it though.

Yeah, guess if the braking force was enough to rip a bolt out of the bracket then a weld doesn't have much chance.

Doogs

08-01-2008, 03:04 PM

If you are on the east side of Melbourne there is a workshop called
'Bob Martin' engineering he also has alot of dirt bike stuff left over from previous wrecks he has fixed, I have had sub frames welded there x3
he does alot of MXer's and he will understand the requirements for Motard
he also can do many other things very talented fellow.
you may be able to email that photo you have to save
the trip if he can't do it.

and he charges a very very fair price for work

Bob Martin Motorcycle Engineering
Flag no.1
18 Kevin Ave Ferntree Gully VIC 3156
ph: (03) 9758 4738

MarkeeMark

08-01-2008, 05:17 PM

Nick what about shopping for a CRF450/250 or CR125/250 upside down front end from the wreckers?

Flash

08-01-2008, 05:38 PM

Good idea Mark! Neil picked up a set of upsidownies for his KDX at a reasonable price I believe

albonator316

08-01-2008, 05:54 PM

Nick what about shopping for a CRF450/250 or CR125/250 upside down front end from the wreckers?

Yep trying that at the moment, not much luck yet. US ebay has a few though.

albonator316

09-01-2008, 09:07 AM

I can get two used forks for about 100 bucks on ebay.com. unfortunately its between 150 and 180 bucks to get them over here :lol: bloody UPS

SM93

09-01-2008, 01:08 PM

maybe supa4 can fit them in his bag

albonator316

09-01-2008, 02:11 PM

maybe supa4 can fit them in his bag

Well how about it supa4? I'll get ya an early birthday present if you do it. :D

ZuluFoot

09-01-2008, 04:45 PM

albonator316

09-01-2008, 04:48 PM

I read that too, but it said he was staying open to do race bikes etc. but one would think he won't be around long without a high percentage of customer not able to go to him anymore! bastards

albonator316

09-01-2008, 09:03 PM

may have found a new front end 95 mod, that way i have many more brake packages to choose from!

Flash

09-01-2008, 09:06 PM

Try and get a CRF front end! I'm sure there will be plenty of them around

albonator316

09-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Try and get a CRF front end! I'm sure there will be plenty of them around
not sure if they'll fit to frame though. and the newer the more $$$$

Wobbly

10-01-2008, 11:47 PM

I got my KX front end for 500 bucks including the clamps. If you can find something with a similar stem diameter and length then just swap the triples over. And if they're close but not quite, get the CR stem pressed into the replacement triple (which is what I did to get the KX triples on the smaller KDX stem).

Muzzard

11-01-2008, 07:40 PM

Bob Martin died last year.
As for the business I am not sure what evolved afterwards.

I have a complete CR125 2000 model front end in a wreck but will need to check with the son about his plans for it.
I will let you know Nick.
It will fit straight in, and will accept all current manufacturers kits.

Wobbly

11-01-2008, 08:20 PM

Bob's place is still running (for the time being), run by his son now isn't it?

Anything will fit with the help of some wire, a welder and a large hammer :D

albonator316

11-01-2008, 08:44 PM

Wobbly

11-01-2008, 08:48 PM

As long as the distance between upper and lower triples is roughly in the same ballpark you can get about anything to fit, just needs a bit of stuffing around.

SMC690

11-01-2008, 10:21 PM

CR125/250 rolling chassis.
Put CR500 motor in it.
Put CR500 Wheels in it.

Then you have a motard and a dirt bike. :)

albonator316

12-01-2008, 12:05 AM

i'll do that when i learn to weld. in the mean time i'll get some forks :P

albonator316

13-01-2008, 12:36 AM

I've discovered that 95-96 cr125 250 triple clamps will fit on the cr500 frame as that was the last years of the cr125/250 steel frames.
So if anyone has some 05/06 cr125/250 triple clamps and forks, i'm your new best friend ;)

albonator316

14-01-2008, 07:16 PM

Well i finally found th parts i'm after for the front end, it will now have a late 90's front end that will allow a nice new brake setup. Now for the brakes :D
I can get a new full beringer kit from the US for $1200 aussie dollars
6 PISTON AEROTEC CALIPER
AERONAL FULL FLOATING DISC
RADIAL AEROTEC MASTER CYLINDER BR12-17.5
RESERVOIR KIT
RACING BRAKE HOSE
RACING SINTERED PADS
http://www.beringerbrakes.com/supermoto.html
Will there be any other cost for bring it over here? will i be charge import taxes or anything like that?
any other suggestions for brakes?

SM93

14-01-2008, 08:53 PM

you will pay for freight around 180 usd + duty 10% or something like that.

Flash

14-01-2008, 09:48 PM

Get them to write a reciep up for $500! THat should save some cash

devo

15-01-2008, 09:19 AM

Yep, less than $1000 and you pay no tax.

I love those brakes, but be aware you'll be going through those pads like there's no tomorrow and they're $100 a set. You can get slower wearing street compound pads, but they feel like poo compared to the others.

albonator316

15-01-2008, 09:43 AM

i think i was quoted 150 for a set of pads. I'm thinking maybe a brembo brake kit would be better, money wise
http://www.bikebandit.com/product/A5032749

shane

15-01-2008, 09:58 AM

i think i was quoted 150 for a set of pads. I'm thinking maybe a brembo brake kit would be better, money wise
http://www.bikebandit.com/product/A5032749

this is the perfect set up for a CRF its what i ran on my race bikes just make sure the master cylinder is a 16x16

Sibbo

15-01-2008, 10:18 AM

There ain't nothing like race pads for great feel, but shit they wear, you can almost hear em wearing in the pits! LOL

albonator316

15-01-2008, 10:31 AM

this is the perfect set up for a CRF its what i ran on my race bikes just make sure the master cylinder is a 16x16

this ones a 16x18, whats the difference? apart from being twice the cost ;)

SM93

15-01-2008, 01:29 PM

the 16 x 18 won't have as much feel

shane

15-01-2008, 04:39 PM

16 x 18 feels like wood and will give you massive arm pump they are to big for one caliper

albonator316

15-01-2008, 06:26 PM

why does the smaller 16x16 one cost so much more then? :lol:
i'll have to justify paying that much for more feel.

devo

15-01-2008, 06:38 PM

albonator316

02-03-2008, 10:37 PM

Well i finally got the set of triple clamps i needed, only took about 5 weeks to get a set off ebay :roll:
so now i have the triple clamps from a 97 cr500, and the forks from a crf450 2003. Fit like a glove :D

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/Bike%20Etc/Image005.jpg
next is lacing new crf03 hub to old rim.

devo

02-03-2008, 10:40 PM

That was a lot of hassle for a loose bolt. :(

Good to see it's getting there again though.

MarkeeMark

02-03-2008, 10:47 PM

Great news Nick. we'll probably be back on the road at the same time hehe
You still interested in some weekend work by the way?

albonator316

03-03-2008, 08:56 AM

That was a lot of hassle for a loose bolt. :(

Good to see it's getting there again though.

You got that right, I could have easily replaced the fork leg and been done alot quicker, but wanted to upgrade brakes to brembo and was put off by the idea of another fabricated bracket after the incident ;)
plus the forks an a huge upgrade from the old ones.

the only weekend work i'm interested with mark is TT :lol:
i thought about it and the extra money in would be nice but all work and no play.... i need some time off :)

MarkeeMark

03-03-2008, 12:16 PM

No probs mate. I'll see ya at TT soon too!

MarkeeMark

05-03-2008, 08:02 PM

why does the smaller 16x16 one cost so much more then? :lol:
i'll have to justify paying that much for more feel.
The 16x16 is only available as a billet item.

I think maico949 may have found a cheap source for the 16x16 in the states though. Perhaps PM him.

I found this Magura 16mm series 195 which rates as high as the Brembo 16x16 and is half the price if anyones interested.
http://www.spieglerusa.com/cfm/mc_ca.cfm
Half way down the page.

albonator316

12-04-2008, 07:49 PM

Okay worked on the bike today got a few good hours in, but left one task for another day as i need a bit of help doing it right.
the brake setup didn't come with any instructions and haven't been able to find any instructions on the net about the brake reservoir.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/key.jpg
here are all the parts of the reservoir, i know that the hose connects to the m/c and the reservoir but there are a few parts here i don't know if i need or not? especially 1, 2, 3, 6 and 9
some more pics if you need a blurry close up ;)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/Image011.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/Image010.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/Image009.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/Image008.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee172/albonator316/brake%20bits/Image007.jpg

SMC690

12-04-2008, 07:54 PM

Put it on your trailer and bring it over here and we will have that all sorted in no time. :)

SMC690

12-04-2008, 07:55 PM

That hose looks too thick for the res to m/cyl, I have a small spool of the right stuff here.

Nice work with the triples and forks BTW.
Have you everything now?

albonator316

12-04-2008, 08:01 PM

yep, dual stage carbon reeds fitted, new pwk carbi fitted and new K&N air filter fitted :D
before you congratulate me i had help on these three lastest aditions ;)

SMC690

12-04-2008, 08:02 PM

You need:

2 x #5
1 x #11
1 x #7
1 x #8
1 x #4
1 x #1

And a bottle of fluid. :)

SMC690

12-04-2008, 08:04 PM

yep, dual stage carbon reeds fitted, new pwk carbi fitted and new K&N air filter fitted :D
before you congratulate me i had help on these three lastest aditions ;)

Modify, modify, modify. Anyone would think we were related, lol. :)

albonator316

12-04-2008, 08:06 PM

:lol: i thought i'd try something fun, modifications are fun ;)

SMC690

12-04-2008, 08:11 PM

Yes, stock bikes are for blokes who only do it missionary.

Wobbly

12-04-2008, 08:14 PM

Now, I may be dumb here, but all you should need do is connect one end of a hose to the nipply bit ;) on the master cylinder, the other to the reservoir and then work out how to mount the reservoir right? That bit can be done with a bit of bent alloy and a can of bunnings paint :)

albonator316

12-04-2008, 08:42 PM

thats what i thought to neil, but there were some pretty parts their that confused me greatly :lol:

SMC690

12-04-2008, 09:06 PM

I'll do it all for you Nick if I can take it around the block. ;)
I need to ride.

Wobbly

12-04-2008, 09:08 PM

Just stick them in the bin. I use the same philosophy with engine rebuilds :lol2:

flea

22-04-2008, 09:42 AM

so i guess you dont need all the cr500 stuff any more, just when a shit load pop up on egay
disc to suit
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spiegler-Cast-Iron-320mm-Fr-Br-Rotor-Honda-XR-CR-Motard_W0QQitemZ330229479823QQihZ014QQcategoryZ352 30QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

cailper
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Magura-Hydraulic-Clutch-Kit-Honda-CR-CR500-KTM-SUZUKI_W0QQitemZ330229191292QQihZ014QQcategoryZ352 30QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

full set of 500 plastics, guys got the whole bike up for parts...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Acerbis-Plastics-Complete-Set-Black-Honda-CR-CR500_W0QQitemZ330229461557QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3523 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

albonator316

13-05-2008, 10:38 AM

What are my options for a 310mm disc for crf?
don't seem to be many options.....

Daws

13-05-2008, 10:54 AM

Nick - What does the current disc look like? (don't say round with holes in it)

What is the PCD of the mounting holes?, is the carrier offset or flat (ie - is the braking face in line with the mounting face?), And perhaps not so important What's the size of the swept section? there may be another option open to you from a different bike.

I'm sure most late 90's sportsbikes had 310mm discs?

Edit - A DRZ400SM has a 310mm disc but the bolt pattern may be different. I'm sure Matt? in Geelong would be able to sort that for you.

Edit again - Even if the CR5 require a disc with an offset carrier, you could get a friendly machinist to machine a spacer so you could use a flat disc.

devo

13-05-2008, 11:11 AM

What are my options for a 310mm disc for crf?
don't seem to be many options.....
Braking wave disc and Beringer cast disc I think.

albonator316

13-05-2008, 11:19 AM

http://www.hardracing.com/images/galfer1.jpg
thats basically it there (the bigger one) but different hole pattern.
the crf hole pattern is different to all the 310mm sports bike discs. as for PCD i'd have to measure but i do know that the pcd will not be a true indication as there is no mounting hole directly opposite. Disc is flat mounting onto hub.