Axle sliders

[Wobbly]

Ok, so I got tired of waiting for any custom made axle sliders to get made up ;) so thought I'd go the quick and easy route myeslf ... so for anyone who is interested in how to make up a slider, have a quick look ... its easy and cost under a hundred bucks.

First thing is to find some threaded rod. Myself, I went around the corner to bunnings and picked up some M8 threaded stainless rod. Cost me $20 for a 3 foot length, easily enough to make 3 axle sliders (so yes, I have an offcut sitting in the shed :roll: ). Next up was to grab a few washers and nuts to match - I had these lying around but you can buy them for a couple of bucks.

Next stop was the local skateboard shop where I made the mistake of telling the 'skate dude' what I was intending to use them for ... he just kind of looked at me strangely :lol: Anyway, that was the expensive bit, as they cost me $40 for a set of 4. There we some really nice black and yellow bling-bling ones, but they were $80 which I thought was a bit much purely for vanity! :P

So back home and out to the shed. Wind a nylock nut on to one end of the rod, add a washer and slide one of the skateboard wheel on. I put mine through the left hand side of the front axle and found the axle bolt made a natural centring point. Stick a skate wheel on the other side and that gives you your reference for how wide the rod needs to be. Mark this off (after you fit a washer and eyeball how much space you need for the nut) and cut it with a hacksaw, following the thread, then chamfer the edge by hand or with a bench grinder (like lazy me).

Now I had my axle cut to fit, I quickly worked out I needed something to locate it. I found an old axle spacer lying around that had a diameter quite close to what the ID on the skate wheel was, so just pressed this into the wheel using my patented biohydraulic press (known to some as a vice :roll: ). The ID of this was similar to the ID of the axle but a bit smaller, so I found a little rubber cylindrical gromity thing (technical term) which I made a bit larger in half by adding some good 'ol gaffa tape to half of it.

I drilled out the centre hole to accept the 8mm rod and squeezed this into the skate and then threaded it on to the rod, so now the rod is nicely located within the axle. Luckily I initially cut the rod a bit long, so I had enough rod to easily take up the extra amount needed by the spacer. So think about this bit before you cut, unlike me :)

Front Right Slider:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_right_front.jpg

Front Left Slider:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_left_front.jpg

Close up of the front right - here you can see the bit of the spacer not pressed into the wheel:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_right_front_closeup.jpg

I quickly found out that one nut need to be tighter than the other side so one thing to remember is to loctite one side prior to trying to fit them :roll: :roll: I'm waiting for the loctite to cure, so on to the rear axle.

Same drill as for the front when it comes to measuring and cutting it to length. This time I thought about what I wanted to do with the spacer beforehand, so cut it to the right length. Again, best to be conservative and clean it up later on. This time the right hand skate wheel located on the axle bolt nicely, but the left hand one needed some attention. I did this by finding another axle spacer and, this time, using it the other way around. This is because the axle nut is much bigger and seats the skate wheel much further out, so I wanted to balance it up more for parity.

I still needed to locate the left hand side though. This time I found a nylong spacer that actually came with my IMS tank. It didn't fit in the slightest for the tank so I'm very happy that I finally found a use for it :lol: This time the axle was significantly smaller than the space in ID, so a bit of machining was required. Now, I have absolutely ZERO machining skills, so this ended up being a bit of an interesting one ;)

What I did was take the spacer and use the bench grinder to turn it down by hand, to make half of it just a bit too larger to fit in the axle spacer, using a slightly conical pattern (so the tip fit in, but not much more). Then I turned down the other side quite a bit more, enough to fit in the axle. Nothing real flash, we're talking a fairly rough job here. I used by biomechanic press again to press this bushing into the axle spacer. I then pushed it out and pressed it in the right way :roll: Then all I needed to do was put the skate wheel on the threaded rod along with a washer, fit the spacer behind it, locate it into the left rear axle, run it through the other side and fit the other skate wheel, washer and nut.

Here's a pic of the left rear, you can just see the axle spacer:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_left_rear.sized.jpg

The other side:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_right_rear.jpg

A closeup of the side with the axle spacer and bushing:
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/slider_left_rear_closeup.jpg

So there you go. A lot easier than it seems, and sum and total cost came to $60 plus about an hour of my time. Not the best most professional job known to man, but hopefully functional and not too shabby looking ;)

Edit: Changed politically correct spelling of AXLE for dicky :P

[dicky]

It's spelt AXLE Neil.

dicky.

[Wobbly]

Fair go mate, I've been drinking after all!

[dicky]

Just making sure that we don't give people the impression that we are a bunch of uneducated hoons and ratbags.
We are highly educated hoons and ratbags.
A true menace to society.

dicky.

[Muzzard]

Tertiary level Cunning its called Dicky....

[rookie517]

:lol: :lol:

nice work Neil! ;)

[JR]

NICE job Neil :up:

[Kav]

Very nice

[Sibbo]

when do we get to see if they work or not? :lol:

[Wobbly]

Is that your way of asking for a ride? :D

[Sibbo]

how'd you know?

[d_kimo]

just read all that again ... why bother with spacers ... just bung the rod through the middle ... tighten up ... hacksaw to length ... repeat

[Wobbly]

Depends on whether you want it centred on the axle or not. An alternative would be to run some tubing on the threaded rod to use that to centre it. Or just not caring :)

[d_kimo]

Depends on whether you want it centred on the axle or not. An alternative would be to run some tubing on the threaded rod to use that to centre it. Or just not caring :)

apart from not caring ... what would be the advantage of having them centred???

[Wobbly]

If done with inserts then it should lessent the chance of snapping the threaded rod when they contact the road, as they are transmitting the force through the body of the nylon slider and onto the larger internal circumference of the axle. Without doing this the force gets applied to the smaller area that the rod contacts the axle with, most likely resulting in some breakage.

To be honest I took the lazy way and only 2 of them are centred with proper metal bushings - two of them are just centred on the axle bolts themselves, which would probably end with them just getting pushed off and pressing on the rod anyway, but if you did it in a less half arsed fashion than I can generally be bothered then they should be stronger as a result, as the rod just provides longitudinal support...

[d_kimo]

bah ... you put in too much effort ;)

[SMC690]

I suppose if they were not centred then in the event of a trip down the road the skateboard wheel could move, especially if it's a big axle and the threaded rod could break more easily.
Just an uneducated guess.
Maybe Neil just a bit of a freak like me and likes things symmetrical. :)

[SMC690]

Those last two damn post's were not there when I started composing my last one, lol. :)

[Wobbly]

Well, at least I had the common decency to do a half arsed job of it :lol2:

[cornerspeed]

I am making the same type of sliders. I have used the actuall bearings also. They go in the skate board wheel closest to the swinger and the rod then goes through.
One thing I have done different is weld a nut on ONE side of the bar then a nylon nut at the other end. This way you wont need to tighten both sides.

However I do have one problem. On the front of the Husky (570) the axle nut is solid there fore not allowing a rod through the axle. Do I just drill a hole through the center or is there another way????

Thanks.

[Sibbo]

Thats what I did with the berg.

[Wobbly]

One thing I have done different is weld a nut on ONE side of the bar then a nylon nut at the other end. This way you wont need to tighten both sides.
Or be lazy like me and use some loctite stud lock on one of the nuts :)

However I do have one problem. On the front of the Husky (570) the axle nut is solid there fore not allowing a rod through the axle. Do I just drill a hole through the center or is there another way????
Yep :)

[Daws]

One thing I have done different is weld a nut on ONE side of the bar then a nylon nut at the other end. This way you wont need to tighten both sides.

I drilled and pinned the plain nut on mine - an option for those without the ability to join metal together.

[Wobbly]

Man you guys take the hard way :lol2:

[agent34]

here is my start to the project !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56829832@N00/?saved=1

[agent34]

The finished project. three coopers later !
www.flickr.com/photos/56829832@N00/?saved=1

[kroosn]

looks good agent will be doing this to my 640 in a week or so. im assuming you just drilled the nuts out? Is the hollow pipe to surround the threaded rod, and why? sorry i just want to have sorted what i am going to do before i start cutting and drilling. looks like ktm are going to take a drop in their axel slider sales. i had an arguement with the guys from ktm that they werent worth $240.


Kroosn

[SM93]

they aren't worth 240.



http://members.lycos.co.uk/mgmoto/html/crash_bobbins.html

[cornerspeed]

240 ?????????????????? cost me 50 tops to make front and rear with parts left over

[Sibbo]

Mine were about $8, give or take. But cheap 8mm rod is super bendy, so go for the good stuff that is a bit harder and dont be like me!

[agent34]

looks good agent will be doing this to my 640 in a week or so. im assuming you just drilled the nuts out? Is the hollow pipe to surround the threaded rod, and why? sorry i just want to have sorted what i am going to do before i start cutting and drilling. looks like ktm are going to take a drop in their axel slider sales. i had an arguement with the guys from ktm that they werent worth $240.
Kroosn
Kroosn,

Give me a call and I will run through the making of the sets, it's just tooo long to go through.
In short, the internal skaty wheel diameter = the 11mm external diameter of the steel tube. = rear axel internal diameter = 9/ 16th rod ( with play ). I must point out that the rear actuall needs a tube that is less that 10.5 mm as this is tight. go 9.5mm ( will take 1 beer)
front = same as rear although you can use the bigger pipe due to the bigger internal axle diameter.
grind the rear off the wheels( on bench grinder ) until happy with width, then get stanley knife and carve out the area for the axle nuts in the rear of the wheel ( will take two beers).

the only problem is the internal diameter of the rear axle will determine the tube size and subsequent treaded rod size. The tube must extend passed the axle nuts the thickness of the wheel bearing area ( normally 15mm ).

They are actually $180 which is way too much for this black duck.

[kroosn]

Yeah thanks agent ive got a better idea now. it doesnt seem that hard ive just got to have the time to get into it. the $240 i was talking about was what i was quoted for the genuine ktm sliders. ive pretty much got decided how im going to do it yet im tempted to try and track down some nylon/PE and do a little more fabricating rather than using the skate wheels, but well see how time and finances go.


Kroosn

[agent34]

I have posted the entire photos of the Axle slider construction phase in an album.
It was easier than posting the indivual ones here.
http://www.putfile.com/harrygrant1

[kroosn]

the picks look good agent. thanks :up:

Kroosn

[Daws]

I have produced a drawing of the sliders I made if anyone wants to make some, they are designed for my bike but the only LC4 specific bit is the counterbores on the rear sliders (to clear the nut and boss on the axle block).

they are similar in design to the KTM supplied ones but longer so you can't pull the centre through by overtightening (Angus & Juz!). Material is Delrin which is a very hard engineering plastic (less likely to wear than Nylon or HDPE). I used threaded M8 rod with 1 Nylock and 1 pinned plain nut.

There is a larger version in the Gallery and I have a pdf also if anyone want's to print.
http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/SLIDERS.sized.jpg

disclaimer stuff... use at your own risk, no commercial use, feel free to modify.

[Sibbo]

Jesus fu$#king christ! COOL!!!

Where did you buy the Delrin from?

[MarkeeMark]

they aren't worth 240.



http://members.lycos.co.uk/mgmoto/html/crash_bobbins.html

Hey Jovian did you buy a set of these?
If you did just wondering how long they took to arrive?
For around $55.00au delivered to your door isn't bad at all when you havent, like me the tools or space to cut and make them.
Mark

[Daws]

Mark - Those British ones look really good, the only reasons I didn't get a set are... I have no credit card and I had free Delrin.

Sibbo - I got the Delrin as a "Sample" from a supplier. If you are after some, any industrial plastics place will have it, I personally recommend "Plastics for Industry" on Cheltenham Rd Dandenong, I have used them for about 4 years now and their service and quality is second to none, their retail prices are pretty good too.

[MarkeeMark]

I've emailed them re postage times, awaiting their reply.

[speaksgeek]

Those look sweet supa4.

Yeah, mine pulled through which is a pain. Fixed with a couple of washers putting the load through a slightly stronger part of the bobbin.

[Wobbly]

Looks sweet paul - it must almost be time to start talking about jigs and making up custom frames now :D

[Muzzard]

Suzuki say the 2007 DRZ400SM are fitted with axle sliders from the Factory.
Someone is obviously switched on there, shame about all the other manufacturers not following suit...
A picture or schematic/plan/engineering drawing is worth a thousand words, and certainly more than a pulled through axle slider... :lol:
Nice Paul.
The KTM 640 masses thank you... ;)

[MarkeeMark]

So they wrote back to me and they'll be here within the week delivered to my door. The MGmoto Crash Bobbins that is.
A touch under $55 aussie, looking fwd to the installation.
Will see if they will be used before the 16th December though, might just wait till then to ride again and give my thumb a good chance to recover.

[Sibbo]

Ur thumb will be fine, just crash on the other one next time!

Riding aids recovery...I think...?

[MarkeeMark]

I know riding helps thats why I'm out on the scooter 2moro working hard! LOL
Need more cash for some more riding gear and a ute down the track.

[devo]

I just ordered a set also Mark. For $50 I dont think you can go too far wrong. I figure I'd spend half that anyway making a set.

[SM93]

let us know what they are like, i want photos and some crash testing please

[kroosn]

i just bought a skateboard today. can you believe its cheaper to buy a skateboard that just the wheels, oh weel hopefully shell be done tomorrow then i can go test them out.

[SM93]

thats what i did to plus you get the nylon nuts to

[cornerspeed]

This is cool. Everyones making a whole heap of sliders in their gararge.... I'm sure between us all we're going to have some pritty funky looking products hehehehehehe

[devo]

You guys can keep your skateboards. :P 50 bucks! Too easy.

I'm gonna start making some vinyl soon. Work just got me a shmicko $40k printer to play with.

[Sibbo]

I'm gonna start making some vinyl soon. Work just got me a shmicko $40k printer to play with.
Well if you need to practice some designs, I will ba able to send you some examples :D

[MarkeeMark]

Mine arrived today woohoo will fit them up and take a pic for the thread!

[Muzzard]

Sweet Mark.
They look a good size, and neat shape.

[devo]

Got mine just today too. They're sitting on my desk at the moment. Looks kinda like skateboard wheels and threaded rod... surprise surprise. ;)

[agent34]

:shock: :shock: :D

[devo]

Lost my 27mm socket so can't torque the axels up again. Have to be fitted later.

[kroosn]

$6.95 from supercheap for a 27mm socket, easy as ;)

[Daws]

Mark or Devo, could you please take a pic of them before you fit (so I can see what they look like) compared to mine.

[kroosn]

Ive finally got my skateboard wheels fitted, work a treat and everything fitted quite nicely with a few homemade bushes and spacers, the other ones looked ok but this will be easy to track down new sliders if i wreck mine. the picture doesnt have the best shot of the sliders but its the best ive got at the moment.


http://members.iinet.net.au/~robertgbailey/IMG_5564.jpg

[devo]

Anyone got a phone number i can SMS a pic to, then post it up? Lost both of my cameras here and have no cable for my phone. :roll:

There seems to some sort of recurring theme going on here...

[agent34]

Ive finally got my skateboard wheels fitted, work a treat and everything fitted quite nicely with a few homemade bushes and spacers, the other ones looked ok but this will be easy to track down new sliders if i wreck mine. the picture doesnt have the best shot of the sliders but its the best ive got at the moment.

sweet!

[Wobbly]

Sorry for the wait devo, here's your pic...

http://vsmr.net/albums/bitsnbobs/IMG012.jpg

[SM93]

they look just like skate board wheels - hahahaha

[kroosn]

lol that looks exactly like my setup except mine are white not black. oh and they are skateboard wheels but thats probably the same as those ones. so whens our first brisbane ride?

[RohaN]

Similar, but if you've ridden a skateboard much you'd see they wouldnt work very well.

are they made from a different material to normal polyurethane wheels?

side note on silly toys with skateboard wheels; I found one of these things on a cleanup pile once, your feet stand side-by side. the whole thing is about half a meter long, Immagine putting on rollerskates, then tying your ankles together and trying to slalom down a hill.

http://gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/images/skateboard/sb-techniski1.JPG

absolute and total death-trap. makes pretty much every other device ever built with wheels feel safe.

ended up putting the ultra-wide trucks from it on my normal skateboard, much better

thems were back in the days before the government would allow me to go near things with engines and license-plates :twisted:

[Sibbo]

I think it needs some brackets welded to it and an engine bolted into it with a bit of a chain drive set up.

Now that would be fun!

[devo]

Cheers neil. No worries for the wait, was only for supa4 anyway. :P


Just got them fitted up, took a photo (found camera again, bought new socket :roll:), and loaded it up onto the compy to post.... ...and only then realised that it looks identical to every other fricken set of sliders ever made. Im such a special kid.

Kroosn, there should be a brissie ride soon. I want to see how slow and awkward I am compared to everyone else. :D

[kroosn]

no worries devo a ride will be good. normally i go slowly anyhow just sit on 40 poppin wheelies as i go. has anyone actually dropped their bike with just using skate wheels will be interested to see how they fair.

Kroosn

[dangermouse1100]

I have just finished making my own sliders, yes i used skateboard wheels :D they aren't that pretty but will see what happens when i lay it down ;)

[Muzzard]

For the minimal amount of material removed from Pauls after his off at Broadford,
I Would certainly recommend speaking to him about the compounding of sliders ;)
Very knowledgeable in the world of acrylics/composites/urethanes,
and the testiment I could see for myself.

[SM93]

i have some experience too and i am sure sibbo will know a bit soon as well

[WOOLO]

Do you fellas put anything up higher on the frame like at pillion peg height to protect the seat/panels and stuff like that ?

[Daws]

Thanks Muzz, I don't really have any clue what I'm talking about I just ask the right questions of the right people and put the answers together. ;-)

Woolo, I didn't bother putting anything higher up on mine as the handguard and sliders keep the rest of the bike off the ground.

[Fazio]

hey guys,
anyone wanting to do this should check ebay out,

because you can get a set of skatie wheels for the price of half a dozen beers.. and only need to get the threaded m8 rod and couple of nuts to finish it off.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280255945608&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

just though id try help out.
cheers
faz

[albonator316]

yep good find :D

[Fazio]

ive bought a set,
will let you know how they are when they get here

[Fazio]

wheels arrived today guys..
was more tempting to chuck them on the skateboard and have a blast..
look like a nice and hard compound, should be good!

[Woolf555]

I did exactly the same thing Faz, and it did the job (although I haven't given them a good crash test yet). The wheels look very similar to the ones I got from ebay. Because they are a fairly narrow skateboard wheel, you may find that after cutting the thread rod to size and putting them on the bike, when you tighten the nuts the wheels will compress a bit and the rod will stick out past the wheel. You may have to trim this down until it's flush with the nut, otherwise when (sorry 'if' ;) ) you throw it down the track the rod will gouge out the bitumen.
You'll also find it a lot easier if you get some loctite and put it on one side, so the nut is flush with the end of the rod, then leave that to set. Then you can put it together and hold that side while you tighten the nut on the opposite side. Use some loctite on that side as well. I found that if you try to tighten them both up together without one nut locked the rod wants to keep threading out on one side or the other.

[Fazio]

i was going to weld one end on..
same concept i guess, only thing is, if i use stainless stuff, i gotta set the mig up for stainless rather than mild steel.

so i may just end up loctiteing lol

[Woolf555]

I would have done that too, if I had the equipment (and ability) :lol:

The loctite actually works quite well, cause the skateboard wheel itself grabs hold of the nut after a little bit a pressure is applied.

[Fazio]

ok, on holidays so thought id wack these together
cost me $21 all up including wheels threaded rod and nuts, (had washers at home)

what i used:
- m8 threaded rod
- 2 normal nuts
- 2 nylock nuts
- 4 washers
- cheap skatie wheels from ebay

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1574.jpg

i then took the plain nut and welded it onto the threaded rod
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1578.jpg

chucked it together and put it on the bike
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1579.jpg

worked out how much rod i needed and marked it with a texta
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1580.jpg

used the same one on the back and worked out how long it would be
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1581.jpg

then you cut and weld the second one at the right length
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1583.jpg

then i just fitted them up and for $21 bucks and 30 mins of work, unbeatable value i recon.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1584.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1585.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1586.jpg

and from a far you can barely even see them
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/fazio201/IMGP1589.jpg[/url]

if anyone wants a hand making them pm me. not hard to do at all!

[MarkeeMark]

Faz I'll do any work you need for a day out driving the M3! :twisted:

[albonator316]

x2 :D

[Fazio]

haha, so would i
ive only driven it a couple of times.. dads pride and joy (that my project car kicked out of the garge, haha)

it goes like stink and holds on like nothing ive been in before, and is really good when it comes to boot space and 5 seater capability..

really fun to drive

[MarkeeMark]

Yep you suck! hahahahaha And I'm jealous.

[oldskool640]

I've searched and I may have missed the post im looking for, but has any one made up axle sliders for the older model kato 640 '99?
The back is easy. The front axle is hollow but has a bolt screwed into the internal thread on one end; i.e. a bolt not a nut..
Is it advisable to leave the bolt out altogether? if i can its as easy as following others in this thread..

as far as i can tell no one makes a kit for these earlier kato's. any ideas how to go about fitting a set of skateboard wheels?

cheers, dave

[Daws]

good write up Faz.

Oldskool - this is similar to my current set-up. This is what I would do.... make or buy a thick washer, outside diameter similar or bigger than the diameter of the flange on the head of the bolt, 3-5mm thick. Get a longer replacement bolt (current one is grade 8.8 high-tensile) and use this bolt to attach the slider with the washer under the slider. Not sure about the other side, if the hole is the same diameter, just tap it to suit.

[oldskool640]

Thanks Daws good solution.

I think i might weld some threaded rod to the end of the longer bolt to put the slider on the other side, rather than Tap a thread in the axle as i think it (the axle) would be high tensile and not just mild steel- might be easier.

Is it crucial to keep the bolt anyway as the axle is clamped and would be held tight against the fork ends by the nuts on the threaded rod if I did it that way?

[Daws]

should be ok but I'd still use a washer on the end where the bolt was, just to spread the load and pull everything together tightly.

Instead of welding to the bolt, why not just use some threaded rod and weld a nut on one end... effectively making a long bolt? Although it might be a PITA to screw in a 250mm long bolt when it comes to wheel change time ;)

[oldskool640]

Thanks mate

If no one else thinks i need to keep the bolt, I'll just do it like Faz and the rest of you guys with some washers, threaded rod, welded nuts and nyloc nuts. (and cheap skate wheels)
...250mm bolt sounds like a PITA...

cheers, dave.

[Daws]

My first preference would be to keep the bolt, just so you're not relying on some allthread to keep the axle in. The allthread bends in a crash, it's unlikely that the bolt will.