Turbo

[Flash]

I've had a few personal messages in relation to turbo's so I thought I post the last reply up.

[Flash]

The turbo I have originaly came on a diahatsu motor, But I found out that they now make a ball bearing version so I will go with that. I have'nt desided entirely weather to inject or go with a draw through/blow through carbi. This will make a big difference to price. At this stage I'm leaning to blow through, but I still need an EFI fuel pump and a rising rate fuel regulator.
For me the weight is the big issue so I'm trying to keep it down to a minimum and also keep the wieght low, so in this case draw through would be the best. (no efi fuel pump required)
But draw through power is compromised as you heat the fuel and the air. One of the tricks with turbos it to keep the distance from the exhaust port to the turbo, and the turbo to the inlet port as short as posible with little or no restriction. This way you get much better response for the turbo. (less turbo lag) The bonus here is that you can use a bigger turbo!!! :D A form of inter cooling is a must but normal intercoolers are restrictive and add a massive amount of distance to the inlet track. Water injection is the answer. Equally effective and without the restriction and distance added.
On the SMR I havn't decided on the best way to get the oil from the turbo back to the engine, although I have an idea that I'm happy with at the moment (I think this will be the final design though) which is a tank mounted below the turbo but the same height as the gearbox/engine (so the oil level will match that in the gearbox/engine) this will also increase the oil capacity for the motor, which is another bonus!
On the cost side of things I try and do a break down of the prices so far. Also I don't know if you can weld or have access to machinery or not.

$200 Manifold 2.5 mm stainless(If you can weld. this includes heat treating and maching flat flanges after heat treating.)
$50 - $100 small EFI pump (off small import car)
$100 Malppassi rising fuel pressure regulator(to keep fuel pressure above boost pressure)
$100 small water tank( for water injection)
$20 windscreen washer pump. (water injection)
$5 - $50 Low pressure humidifier spray nozzal (Water injector)
$250 -$2000 Turbo (import turbo to a custom hipo one)
You will need to drop the compression a little, either a custom piston or if you don't need a rebuild you could get a spacer made for the base of the barrel. It will lift the barrel and head, it should'nt need to be to thick maybe as little as 2 mm depending on the capacity and the bore size. This way you can use standard pistons every rebuild rather than custom made ones. Check you cam chain has enough length.
You will need to adjust the lobe centers on your cams so there less over lap. (Other wise you will blowing fuel and air out the exhaust) 110 to 112 degree lobe centers should be fine. This will give you more bottom end but reduce your top end if you had no turbo (you wont need the top end of the cams you will have a turbo!!)
I am mounting the turbo (at this stage) infront of the engine with the oil tank below it so the oil from the turbo will run into it and it will also increase the overall oil capacity. This should only cost maybe $150 or so to make (I'l make it out of alloy unless my father inlaw gets a purge tank then I'll make it out of titanium)
On top of this you will need to allow for hoses and fittings to run oil through etc. when i was turboing cars we would allow for $200 for this so I imagine it will be much less for a bike. I think that is almost it However you may need to watch the voltage being drawn in relation to the efi pump and the water pump. You may need to get the coils re-wound to cope. This is as far as I have gone at this stage as my bike is still under warranty. I will be putting a smr510 crank in and boring it to 535cc at the same time this will allow me to run a bigger turbo :D
One last thing You may need a boost controller to retrict the boost levels in the first 6 gears!!
Just kidding, You will need to restrict the first 2 maybe 3 gears depending on turbo sizing and boost level you are using.
I'm not usually a details man but I've done the best I can, I hope this helps anyone else contemplating building one of the coolest bikes on the road.:supz:



Ash

[Wobbly]

Now you just need to work out how to fit the hyabussa motor in the SMR frame! :D ;)

[Flash]

I do love a challenge.
I've got my oxy, my mig and my angle grinder ready to go. Do you think it will void the warranty? :lol:

[Wobbly]

Nah, you'd be right! :twisted:

[Rick]

Well youd be surprised how many geniuses were really rambling coccaine addicts.
Poor Husky :?

[Wobbly]

:rofl:

[Flash]

So what you guys are saying is that you don't me to build turbo kits for your bikes. :roll:

[Rick]

Nah man- hook me up :) Im not keen on braking down in the middle of nowhere though, and I wanna ride through massive puddles.
-Alright no puddles. Sik idea- Ive actually seen it done on a little mini chopper bike.

[Trubritbiker]

Not wishing to piss on your bonfire Flash, but a thought occured to me the other day about your turbo project. As the turbo works on exhaust gas pressure, you could have problems because on a single you do not have a continous flow of gasses as you do with a multi ?. Someone suggested to me to have a 2nd plug in your header firing on the dead stroke Could be why people use superchargers are more common on singles? :idea:

[Flash]

Hey your alive!!

I'll give you some thing to think about. Go outside start your bike and rev it to (Let me know when so I am aware there is no thunderstorm coming) 4000rpm, then put your hand half over the outlet. once doing this see if you can pick the dead spot!! Nop I didn't think so. :D Imagine it at say about 8000!
I understand this theory however once the revs rise there is no noticable "dead spot", you have to also understand that once you put a small restriction in the exhaust ie turbo you will create a backing up of the pulse which at higher rpms will make this "dead spot" all but disapear. It is still there probebly only measurable be instrument. The biggest problem is the load at low rpm on the bearings of the turbo, when there is a "dead spot" that will effect the turbo. However the turbo shouldn't be set up to run in this rpm range, so it shouldnt effect the overall performance.
The other option on bikes with one outlet per valve is to have each pipe different lengths so that you get a more consistant pulse at these low rpm. With modern ball bearing turbos the bearings will last a lot longer than the old bronze bush type so if anyone considers a conversion with a bike that has a single outlet they would be advised to go for a ball bearing turbo. :up:

I'm looking at my big bore kit and a 510 crank int he next 6 months then comes the wistle.. sweet power :supz:

[Muzzard]

I'll get myself a smokin 630SMR and blow you off all day, every day, Ash!
By the time you build up pressure I'll be back on the trailer and heading for home... :lol:

[Flash]

I don't think so, I'll be ahead about 15k. that will buy a shit load of development :D

[Muzzard]

Whats wrong with just getting you a Smokin' 570 or build a wickedly fast CR500 outta shit from the wreckers, then fit it up with all the bling gear, and bang that sucker on alcohol and you got a cheap motard with 75HP.

[Flash]

I seriously looked at the 570 but the left kicker and no button ruled it out, if it had either I would have gone that way, on the other hand I really wanted a cr500 but the "practicle side of me" decide that premix as a comuter was probebly not the go. (most mature thing I ever did :( )

The other reason to do is because I can!! :D

[Trubritbiker]

a mate of mine had a sidecar-cross Maico(Zabel) motor in a solo, he had 82bhp at the back wheel. It was too much for the weight.

[Muzzard]

I rode an EML/Zabel outfit a few years ago in the N.S.W off road racing scene that had 85HP at the wheel! :twisted:

[Flash]

85hp ay mmmmm sounds good :twisted:

[Wobbly]

You wouldn't set your sights as low as that would you ash? :D :twisted:

[Flash]

What ever power I get with 535cc 9:1 and the cam centres opened a little (to 110 degres) then I would like to double it but, I know with a compression drop and the cams will drop the power down but bring the torque up particulary in the lower range.

[Trubritbiker]

"What ever power I get with 535cc 9:1 and the cam centres opened a little (to 110 degres) then I would like to double it but, I know with a compression drop and the cams will drop the power down but bring the torque up particulary in the lower range."

so you are aiming to make it the same as my CCM :lol:

[Muzzard]

Your Pure Evil CCM has no equal John :twisted:

[Flash]

No, not at all John I want a quiet bike :lol:

[Trubritbiker]

Pardon :-$

[Flash]

aaayyyyy

[Sibbo]

blow you off all day, every day, Ash! What ever tickles your fancy!!

build a wickedly fast CR500 Now we are talking! Bling a ring a ding ding!

[Muzzard]

You blokes make me laugh, :lol: I'm not the one with the unnatural obsession for blowing/stroking things :rofl:

[Sibbo]

you thump it instead! :P

[ThumpinPumpkin]

The thing that made me go to supermoto was, simplicity, light weight and nice power to weight ratio. I still own a turbo/intercooled Merkur and been involved with turbos for a while, so as you, I know a bit about that stuff. Factory bikes from the late 70 early 80 where not very nice to ride, boost threshhold, detonation weight... I would think it would be pretty hard to out do the manuacturer in that field.

As you know, to have serious boost you will need to lower compression with flat top forged pistons or the cheap ass way of thicker head gasket that destroy your squish. Then cams with little or no over lap, better valves (s.s. or inconel) on the exhaust side, water/glycol injection etc. Can you imagine how hot that thing is going to run? To me they must be a simplier/better way. How about a high compression alky (nitro/meth) motor?

You achive perfection when you can no longer remove stuff from it.

Off my soap box now :D

[Muzzard]

I'm with you Thumpin', Alcohol is the go for big HP singles... :twisted:

[Wobbly]

I guess that the advantage with a motard is that even with hot cams by mx bike standard, theyre still reasonably tame because they still want them to drive from lower down the rev range ... so going to a slightly more conservative cam wouldn't be such a big difference as it would be with a roadie ...... but certainly the spool time would still be an issue.

Guess we'll find out when ash finally gets around to fitting that turbo ;)

[ThumpinPumpkin]

Well if your dead set on this idea...http://www.grusbus.nu/galleri/Bilder_2005/midlanda20050523/

[Wobbly]

Look at the distance between the headers and the turbo!!!! :shock:

Can anyone spell 'highside' :?: