Welding

[Wobbly]

Boy its been quiet around here the past few days, makes me wonder what you lot are up to :-k No good I'm betting! :lol:

Anyways, something I've never spent time working out how to do is weld. I've always outsourced this bit of my work, most usually because alloy welding is normally on the cards and you need a mega $$$ TIG to do it. But anyway, I figure this is something that I really should have learned how to do by now :oops:

So i bought an elcheapo arc welder on the weekend, as you can pick up a basic 140 amp jobbie for less than 100 smackers these days. The first I got to have a play with it was tonight, just playing around with a couple of small bits of steel. My welding skills haven't improved much since the last time I tried :lol2: so I'm looking for some tips from those in the know in terms of technique etc.

So with arc welding are you really welding the two bits of metal together or are you just fusing the two bits together under temperature with the welding rod? Is there a significant difference in the sort of weld created by arc versus gas, which would surely have to be a much longer and progressive process? I seem to be creating a lot of slag within the welds - what is the most common cause of this? Too much gap from the electrode/inconsistent gap? Or gaps between the material?

All pointers greatfully received :)

[Flash]

You got the beer I'll be there to teach :D

I haven't arc welded for quite a few years (all tig and mig) but I still remember it, I think.

[Wobbly]

Beers, check :lol2:

[Sibbo]

what day are the lessons?

[SMC690]

Interesting read:
http://www.norco-inc.com/industrial/welding_how_to.htm

[Wobbly]

Cool :) Here's another one...

http://www.aussieweld.com/arcwelding/index.htm

[Muzzard]

Welding is different with every application Neil.
The slag can be from too much 'herbs'.. voltage/amperage, or even the types of metal being welded, type and brand of rods, weather, and of course the operators actions with the rod in the process of welding...

Practice, practice... ;)
Tafe offer some very good welding courses for beginners and those with experience too.
Time is the problem there I suppose...

[Wobbly]

Yeah, I was looking at doing some of the courses at box hill tech, but i just can't get my schedule predicatable enough :( So, DIY seems to be the answer ... so all I need now is to find someone with a bunch of scrap steel I can nick ;)

[Flash]

If you go to a fabricator or a steel supplier and tell them what you want they usually give you lots of off cuts. I'll let you know if I can get there Friday!

[Sibbo]

Neil, if you weld up a frame that can take a KX front end and kx swing arm, I will be able to have a road legal ICV KX5.

[Wobbly]

Or you could just register a KX5 :?:

[Sibbo]

No can do. Need complyance plate, trust me, I have researched it. If there is a way, let me know.

[Wobbly]

Why can't you just claim you made the frame, then register it as an individually constructed vehicle? You'll need an engineers certificate etc of course. There was a bloke up in NSW that had a CR250 that had full road reg on ebay a little while ago....

[Sibbo]

I saw that cr. I have spoken to an Engineer and he did not seem too keen on the BS frame. I should chat to a few of them, but they are not goign to openly say, "just lie to me and it will be OK".

Frames are actually pretty complex and good welding. So the bloke would know for sure that it is factory...or would he?

[Flash]

I have seen better hand weld than machine welds so.... :roll:
I also saw a yzf426 with a air cooled yz400+2 stroke!! :D

[Sibbo]

So do you think I could BS that I had my mate/shop weld me up a frame and an engineer will fall for it. Assuming it is freshly powdercoated or painted and lookes really fresh with no numbers or manufauture markes?

[SMC690]

Why can't you just claim you made the frame, then register it as an individually constructed vehicle? You'll need an engineers certificate etc of course. There was a bloke up in NSW that had a CR250 that had full road reg on ebay a little while ago....

Neils on the money.
If it doesn't have a VIN then unfortunately you can't (legally) bolt a number plate on it.
The engineer will then have to assess it for compliance with ADR and it may cost a small fortune.
You used to be able to buy the compliance rights for low volume bikes, it may still be the case.
When the first 916SPS's came into Aus in the late 90's I was selling them and a company WA owned the comliance rights.
The cost to comply the SPS from memory was $2200 dollars, the kit had a 'personal import' compliance plate in it, sound deadening for the fairing panels, clutch cover & baffles for the Termi's. All fitted before delivery of course, lol.

The other way would be to buy a rooted frame from a wrecker with a headstock similar looking to yours for next to nothing, cut the headstock off with the VIN on it, take it to a frame stamping place and ask them to stamp it on your new headstock you just welded in as you bent it in an accident. ;)

[Flash]

I hate to say it guys but you can register a bike/car without a vin I have done it!!! What they will do is get the police(or the like) to stamp a V00000000P number.
Sibbo you could say you started with a "cr" frame and cutit around a lot then had it re heat treated etc then say it isn't really like the original.
Have you actually spoke to an engineer and he sai "you can't do it"?

[Sibbo]

I have emailed (many times back and forth) an engineer and he said regarding ICV (individually constructed vehicle), that the frame must not be a production frame.

He also said that it is expensive to do the limited run complyance (eg CR500E, YZ250WR) bikes. He did not say that you cant buy the rights.

Changing the Vin would be an option. Basically get a rooted KDX frame (hmm, who has a KDX?), weld over the KX vin, re-stamp KDX numbers and then take the kdx to an engineer for a certificate for the 200/500 engine swap. That should not be too hard and it would be quasi legal.

[Flash]

Try a different engineer!! They are usually very stuck in there ways and ontop of that if it is a little different some of them can't be bothered. The other thing that I imagine is going against you is that you may need to spend money to get help from them!! You used to have to spend the 400 before they would even talk to you.
I would look at getting a cr frame and change the frame to fit things and use a KX engine!! this will throw them off a lot. Like I said before you have cut up a cr frame and used other frames etc.
It is no differed to building a car from scatch the test the torsional rigidity brakes etc. then they just check mounts eg. engine trans brakes etc and off you go to vic roads!

[Sibbo]

I would love for it to be that simple and it would be easier if I could just copy someone else, instead of being the first (?) person to get a KX on the road (in recent times).

Plus I have to ride a KX5 before I cosider buying the bloody thing. It would want to be faster than a CR5, otherwise it is not worth the effort.

Anyone got a KX5 or know of a KX5 that I could thrash...cough....er...ride?

[Wobbly]

Which engineer did you try? There's a bloke listed on the VAAC or whatever it is list our in east ringwood...

[Sibbo]

Thats him. Plus a few others as well.

[Muzzard]

If only it was 20 years ago Sibbo.
You could have just bought my SR500 4 speeder already with cert and mags....
They dont really want you riding MX bikes on the road, thats why they complianced the WR/CRF/DRZ/KLX range.
Just get a real 4 stroke motard, you couldn't handle the 500 anyway ;) .

[Wobbly]

Well I've already welded up my first creation, thanks to some instruction from ash last night and quite a bit of beer :) The drz motor now has an engine stand that I just need to bolt to the top of my bench and make up a couple of little spacers for the mounts for :D Not welding at its most beautiful, but they seemed to pass my scientific bang-them-on-the-floor-and-see-if-they-fall-apart test :lol2:

[Sibbo]

you couldn't handle the 500 anyway ;) .
I did OK on the YZ and it has a much more aggressive power delivery than the CR500E's that I rode.

[Wobbly]

Sure the CR didnt have a throttle stop? :poke:

[Sibbo]

One might of. The dude said it was de-restricted, but I think the guys in the shop did the owner a favour and did not de-restrict it, as the CR was very much beond his abilities.

[Wobbly]

Ok, so I've got my very own first engine stand done :) While my welding is certainly less than beautiful not only has it past the belt it on the ground test but its even functional :shock:

http://vsmr.net/albums/drzrebuild2/engine_stand1.sized.jpg

http://vsmr.net/albums/drzrebuild2/engine_stand2.sized.jpg

http://vsmr.net/albums/drzrebuild2/engine_stand3.sized.jpg

http://vsmr.net/albums/drzrebuild2/engine_stand4.sized.jpg

[Muzzard]

With the motor bolted to that bench,..
How does it turn in? Bet you the seats hard too!
Now I'm being silly. :roll:

Its friggin welded isn't it Neil? Well? ;)

Theres a Maico MC500 with a motard setup for sale in the current 'photobuys' Bike Trader, right up Sibbos alley!
If I had the spare dough,
It would be in my shed... :D

[Wobbly]

Well I tried using some pine framing .... but the brakes were a bit wooden... :nerd:

[Flash]

I's only worth half whats it advertised for!(that will be the excuse! :lol: )

[Sibbo]

Thats old school? '80 or '70?